Episode 3
Meet Julie Weber of J.D. Ireland Interior Design
In today's episode, I catch up with my talented, inner circle designer friend, Julie Weber. We explore her career path from design school to working for a commercial interior architecture firm before ultimately joining forces with her high school friend, Joe Ireland. They are celebrating 20 successful years of their namesake firm, J.D. Ireland.
We dig into the benefits of a business partnership and the less sexy topic of business liability inherent to working as an interior designer. Tune in for an in-depth conversation with Julie on working with clients and advice for new business owners.
Mentioned in this episode:
Design Business Accelerator Toolkit
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Transcript
BTD Pod Julie Weber Episode UPDATE
[:[00:00:23] Julie: Welcome to Behind the Drapery podcast.
[:[00:00:43] Liz: In 2003, Julie partnered with her high school friend and fellow designer, Joe Ireland, to launch JD Ireland, which just celebrated their 20th anniversary. They were in their 20s at the time, and much like the tech disruptors of today, they were intent on breaking away from business as usual and offering a more dynamic, down to earth approach.
[:[00:01:20] Liz: You're gonna love hearing about her unique business structure inside a successful partnership. And the less sexy topic of liability we all carry as working as a designer. She'll also get into pivotal moments that propelled their business forward. You're going to learn so much. So let's dive in. Well, I'm thrilled today to have my friend Julie Weber joining us, a seasoned interior designer with JD Ireland in Washington, D.
[:[00:01:54] Julie: here. Thank you, Liz. I'm happy to be here. Thanks for having me. Oh my goodness.
[:[00:02:13] Liz: On breaking away from business as usual as an interior design firm. I definitely want to dig into all of that. So to kick things off, could you share a bit about your journey in the world of design? Like what was your path? How did you decide you wanted this to be your career path to pursue?
[:[00:02:32] Julie: I did go to school for it. But my freshman year, I started as a communications major and I thought, how boring is that? No offense to all of the communication majors out there. I then learned, you know, I was taught, I was figuring out like, what can I do? What's really, what, what, where's my passion? I'm what, 19 years old, who even knows?
[:[00:02:54] Liz: that. Oh, that's so smart. I think I had the dream and then didn't have that option where I went to school.
[:[00:03:08] Julie: And I started my career in commercial architecture in a big firm that was doing the AOL headquarters and micro strategy. And so I did big interior architecture projects. I mean, I was low man on the totem pole, the CAD jockey, I believe I really was. And I did that for three or four years. And then I made the switch to residential design.
[:[00:03:31] Liz: did you think about making It's a big change, right? Doing huge commercial. It's a
[:[00:03:47] Julie: And I was just really just sort of burnt out. And after I feel like three or four years, that's sort of too fast to be burnt out. I don't know. Kind of
[:[00:03:55] Julie: detailed and so detailed and the reality is I love it. I [00:04:00] love it. Love it. Love it. It's a part that I can still love because I'm not doing it all day every day.
[:[00:04:13] Liz: so much has changed
[:[00:04:22] Julie: Anyway, so I did that for a bunch of years. And then I don't remember exactly what motivated me to start looking around for jobs. But at the time there was a website interior design jobs. com. Um, I don't even know if they still exist. Daryl Carter, who is a Washington designer that is national international had a job posting.
[:[00:04:50] Liz: in with your AutoCAD skills
[:[00:04:55] Liz: few years ahead of us, right? Age and stage wise. He probably really needed that inside.
[:[00:05:02] Julie: I mean, his, his background was he was a, he was an attorney and was just incredibly naturally talented at interiors. And his house was published in Metropolitan home magazine, which is unfortunately now defunct, but I think he got noticed and. His business started snowballing. And I think at the time he needed to build the design team.
[:[00:05:44] Julie: Things that meant nothing to me for a long time.
[:[00:05:50] Julie: it was so phase two, the panels and panels of fabrics and trims. I mean, I've never seen who, who knew there were so many trims.
[:[00:06:03] Liz: And I thought, Oh my gosh, a box of trims in her office at all times. It's like you were living in black and white doing auto cat all day. And then. With Daryl got to be in living color, so to speak, down at the design center and actually touching and feeling the materials he was working with. Did you feel like you came alive at that point?
[:[00:06:26] Julie: A little yes and a little no. I think what was so wonderful for me about working with someone like Daryl is that because he was not a designer by training, he was an attorney. He was very specific about making sure that our T's were crossed and our I's were dotted and everything was in writing.
[:[00:07:14] Liz: part.
[:[00:07:33] Liz: When I advise people who come to me around about starting their own business, I'll say business insurance really is something you need to have early on an accountant. First pay all of your taxes and sales taxes, and then business insurance, because you are going into people's homes obviously, and bringing in trades people.
[:[00:07:54] Julie: around. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think that that's, that is, you know, I, I owe [00:08:00] it to him. That I learned the importance of that, and I do the exact same thing.
[:[00:08:37] Liz: And have the resources to enforce any
[:[00:08:44] Liz: is the word I'm searching for the phrase. Was there anything that went sideways that you could sort of share as a cautionary tale? Or is it too close to what it was like working in Daryl's office? And you wouldn't want to share on his behalf?
[:[00:08:56] Julie: no, no, no, no. I mean, working with Daryl, everything was great. I was still sort of Low man on the totem pole during that time, you know, I came in as a project manager. I didn't really do much lead design. I had made some good relationships with the clients and they trusted me and Daryl thankfully trusted me to, you know, pull over placement fabric here and there.
[:[00:09:47] Julie: What do I do? We have had scenarios where, you know, we've brought contractors in and. They have grossly underperformed and the client wants the money back. The problem [00:10:00] is the way we've set it up here at JD Ireland is that our clients contract directly with the contractors. We don't want to carry that insurance.
[:[00:10:29] Julie: It's those sorts of scenarios where, you know, we have great relationships with our clients and we come with all the best intentions. You can put absolutely everything in writing and have a, have a really tight contract and still people will find a way if they are upset enough. But then there's also the human component where we don't want to leave our client with an unfinished bathroom.
[:[00:11:26] Julie: Have you
[:[00:11:53] Liz: Use it as something to point back to and lean on. But thankfully I haven't had to go to court [00:12:00] over anything. I don't think anybody really wants to do that. It ends up costing more than the actual mistake, unless you have a contractor with, you know, 50, 000 on the line. That's
[:[00:12:11] Julie: Fees. A client will come to us and say, you know, I've got 200, 000 for this project and we have to clarify, is it 200, 000 all in or is it 200, 000 for goods plus fees plus the tax plus the shipping plus the receiving plus the delivery. I know I
[:[00:12:32] Liz: I'm like, this is doable that I'm getting. The labor and then you think how can it cost I'm sure you know customers or clients rather are like this should get me a lot right and then you've got the design fee, the contractor fee, the cabinetry, the appliances, she wants nicer and then suddenly
[:[00:12:49] Julie: Yeah, easily. It's funny to have, you know, the finished product in an initial phone call with a potential client. I almost always get the question. What do you think this is going to cost? Oh, yeah. I don't know what your goods are going to cost because I don't know if you're going to say, Hey, I really just want you to pull from West Elm or if we will have a client that has an incredible appreciation for antique area rugs and they have 125, 000 area rug.
[:[00:13:22] Liz: you want on every pillow. You've just, Oh,
[:[00:13:38] Liz: a, people need to look him up if they don't know Darrel Carter already.
[:[00:13:55] Julie: yeah, I don't, I still don't think that there is a designer. That can [00:14:00] combine such a clean, modern interior that is so layered and so textured with a neutral palette.
[:[00:14:18] Liz: way to put it. It does feel like art because he puts so much care into finding those unique one of a kind antiques and marries it perfectly with a more contemporary new piece of furniture or
[:[00:14:35] Liz: I have several of his books and, and friends who have used him as a designer as well. And their, their homes are spectacular.
[:[00:14:54] Julie: An initial phone call with somebody, they will say, you know, inevitably, what will it cost? And I say, you know, a finished room, you know, let's say we're doing a family room, a finished family room. I mean, I don't think it's ever been less than, you know, 40, 45, 000. And it's average 75. 80, 000 and people, I'm sure we haven't heard back from people probably because that number up front seems so scary.
[:[00:15:20] Liz: blows people's minds because yeah, what you're exposed to before you work with a designer are catalogs and things you see in retail and Also, you're not adding up all of the elements that a designer would bring to the table. As you know, like window treatments that are custom made and hand sewn and all of the things, the rugs and the art and the time to have a seasoned professional put it all together and install it for you.
[:[00:16:11] Liz: And that can be a whole conversation in of itself but Yeah. It is hard with that initial call when you throw out the big numbers, then like you said, they don't call you back because it's so
[:[00:16:38] Julie: And you want to furnish simply furnish, you want to get your sofas, your chairs, your side tables, your lamps, you're going to walk out spending 40, 000 all in with no professional help. But you're not going to have your window treatments, you're not going to have your wall treatments, you're not going to have a finished space and have it styled.
[:[00:17:06] Liz: Oh, and it's so much work that you can't imagine it until you're in it. I've had clients who were renovating homes and we were doing the full design, but they had lighting somehow tied into the contractor builder.
[:[00:17:39] Liz: And that was with some help. So it is very time consuming and it's
[:[00:17:45] Liz: people cause you're, they haven't done it. And you wouldn't know until you see the stacks of paper per order or now the many emails per order.
[:[00:18:06] Julie: You are looking for something specific. Correct. It takes time to find that. It does. And then you place the order. You track it yourself, right? What's happening if it's not Amazon, right? You're tracking it. You open it up, you look at it, you make sure it's okay. And either you place it where it's supposed to be and you get rid of the packing materials.
[:[00:18:52] Julie: And so I, I, once I got some feedback, I would say it was probably 10 or 12 years ago. I got feedback from a client we had done a couple of projects with at the time. And she was referring somebody else to us, her friend's children to us. And they were probably 25 at the time. And she said, I said, you know, okay, you know, I'm curious, what did you say, you know, about how, what to expect in working with a designer?
[:[00:19:27] Liz: Oh, that's funny. That's so interesting because it's true. That's the tracking time. That's the waiting time.
[:[00:19:36] Julie: The buying time, the tracking time. Yeah. Procurement, right? Procurement. Our procurement. That's right. You know, and so I, since that I took away and I'll say to my team, you know, let's, let's check in with our clients at least weekly. Um, it's not a couple times a week. Just here, you know, here's a heads up now.
[:[00:20:14] Liz: Oh, yes. I know. I've got so many ideas and I definitely want to circle back to how you and Joe formed your partnership after your days with Daryl. I
[:[00:20:27] Liz: many, we have six hours, seven hours?
[:[00:20:31] Julie: This is what our dinners are like. They don't stop. They don't
[:[00:20:41] Julie: Absolutely. Absolutely. But our industry operated one way 20 years ago, it operated a little bit of a different way 10 years ago.
[:[00:21:13] Julie: Um, not to say that you're not.
[:[00:21:18] Julie: for sure. Yeah, but also, you know, you have the luxury of you being the driver of your ship and you're you're responsible for that. Whereas we have a few other people working here and a few other lead designers themselves.
[:[00:21:42] Liz: good segue to tell us about how you decided to enter into a partnership, because I believe that's. Pretty unique because a lot of us are set up the way I am where I'm driving the train, as you say, and I've got junior assistant designers, project managers helping me, but I'm [00:22:00] able to scale up and down and do what I like based on what my life's doing at that moment
[:[00:22:05] Julie: Right where you are, what you're doing. Exactly. Um, I want to give a snippet into how Joe got into this. Yes. Joe Ireland is my business partner. We met in 1991. We both went to high school in the area. Oh gosh. Yeah. Um, we've known each other for a very, very, very long time. Um, he was doing window display at a salon in DuPont circle called access at the time.
[:[00:22:59] Julie: Um, he can sketch to scale. Just off the top of his head. It's just how it happens. It's remarkable. Yeah. So he was born with the incredible talent of design and art. And he went and did an apprenticeship with another design firm in the city, Solis Betancourt. And then he decided to do this on his own when he realized he doesn't know what he's doing.
[:[00:23:29] Liz: that's when I first met him because my first design gig. Was that a furniture store? As you know, boss do on 14. And I remember young Joe coming in because we're about the same age. All of us, right. Came on time, but come in and working on these projects. And I was a couple of years behind him thinking, Oh, wow.
[:[00:23:52] Julie: whole package, the cutest, the coolest, engaging, brilliant. Yeah. Oh. Oh yeah. Yeah. What [00:24:00] a time. 14th Street was just becoming a place that was more than just, you know, prostitutes.
[:[00:24:07] Liz: because we all grew up in the area and I used to, I mean, it doesn't sound good to say we'd go down there and if we got that far, turn around and come
[:[00:24:21] Liz: Jason and I, he's episode two, got to talk about all of the Vastu things.
[:[00:24:28] Julie: Yeah. Listen to that episode. That's going to be a good one. That episode.
[:[00:24:34] Julie: I love it.
[:[00:24:45] Liz: So he went out on his own with his artistic abilities and found out the business and maybe
[:[00:25:10] Julie: Don't know what I'm doing. Do you want to do it with me?
[:[00:25:18] Julie: we went to dinner and we talked about it. Yeah. And I said, fine, I'll do it.
[:[00:25:27] Julie: right? So actually, no, I had, after two years, I had thought to myself, you know what?
[:[00:25:47] Liz: it. I've had meetings
[:[00:25:56] Liz: I'm out. I'm back to a OL.
[:[00:26:24] Liz: Joe handling the emotional client piece,
[:[00:26:28] Julie: I'm leading,
[:[00:26:32] Julie: He had, Yeah. Yeah. And well, there's that creative ability. Right. So, well, there's some, there is some history there. I, he and I partnered with the idea that we would both be designers. Um, I would do the project management piece.
[:[00:27:00] Liz: Oh my gosh, that's funny. That's one of the first things people think about is what to name it and using your name or not.
[:[00:27:13] Julie: Well, that's what we did. We, we knew Joe and I are both designers and I didn't want his company was Joseph Ireland interiors, call it ego, whatever it was. I was like, you know what?
[:[00:27:52] Julie: He did all the business stuff. So I would do in, in design manager, I would do the inputting of all of the [00:28:00] specs, but our other partner would send the proposals and do the purchase orders and do the procurement. So it started out like
[:[00:28:14] Liz: I think several years in how important it was for the client relationship and everything to have, we called our person and operations manager who actually was my sister for about 10 years. Um, because I could stay warm and fuzzy and maintain the client relationship and I'm showing the things and I'm selling the things.
[:[00:28:48] Liz: So they'd go to our operations manager and say, look, this one, this is dented. This is a problem. This is late. Not that I wasn't aware or involved, but I think. delineating that. I don't know. It took me longer to, I sort of had to come about it
[:[00:29:16] Julie: Um, you know, I often say like I'm the person who everybody hates. Oh, as much as people want the beautiful things, they don't want to pay for it. They want the service. They don't want to pay for it. And I am enormously grateful to the incredible clients. And there are many of them who have been wonderful and have made the firm what we are.
[:[00:29:58] Liz: Yeah. We're working with [00:30:00] products and vendors that we can't control every motion end to end.
[:[00:30:15] Julie: yeah, we're the ones that Yeah, I mean, and that, that's exactly right. You know, I will often, you know, if, if things get dicey, I will sometimes call a client and say, I understand you're angry with us.
[:[00:30:34] Liz: Well, I'm so happy.
[:[00:30:47] Julie: We want to deliver that for you. We are fighting. Every day with, you know, the tile manufacturer in California right now who sent an entire set of tile that was the wrong color and handmade. And so now we're having it remade. And that takes months sometimes. So yeah, it
[:[00:31:13] Liz: I paid a hundred million dollars for this space because we have that quiet period to the client way of procurement. I will pop in and say, Hey, we are checking in all the time and doing this and doing this. I want you to know, which goes back to something you mentioned earlier, which we also do our Friday email updates for the clients.
[:[00:31:48] Liz: We're. Finding something out before it's a bigger problem, you know, oh, there's a knit back. Oh, shoot. Let's go scramble and send that out. It's a lot of work. You do not want to do yourself.
[:[00:32:11] Julie: The client had her favorite, we had our favorite, and then we decided to throw away the third one. Sent, contacted the vendor, you know, pricing, availability, turns out both are discontinued. But they're going to see if they have stock. Liz, the conversation back and forth has been going on for three weeks now.
[:[00:32:31] Liz: don't doubt it. It's crazy sometimes. They've got
[:[00:32:53] Liz: I look over the time sheets and I say, Oh gosh, this is just write this off as admin cost of doing business because
[:[00:33:01] Liz: crazy. Right. And nobody signed up for that. Nobody said yes, please spend 12 hours on the phone with friends. We had a fabric one time where I think a cyclone or something hit a very small Indonesian island that was block printing a quadrille fabric.
[:[00:33:32] Julie: Yeah, we had to switch fabrics. We didn't
[:[00:33:41] Julie: right. That's exactly right, which is so funny because, and that's sort of, that's sort of is a little bit of a check of what we do and that it is a luxury service and it's a luxury business.
[:[00:34:11] Liz: And I don't want to seem like I don't care about anybody.
[:[00:34:19] Liz: village is down by the cyclone. The village is gone. The whole village is gone. Your sofa is not happening in the way we originally envisioned
[:[00:34:26] Julie: Yeah. Yeah. So we're going to, we're going to, we're going to redo that. Um, but anyway, so back to how Joe and I sort of migrated to our current positions, um, our third partner chose to leave the, this business and went back to, he was doing some it or something before that. So he went to do that. I just have a natural type A, I'm going to control all of this stuff.
[:[00:35:04] Liz: to your original start
[:[00:35:09] Liz: I mean, when sofas come in the wrong size and they don't usually but because you're measured and done a plan if you can't do that.
[:[00:35:22] Julie: I care about how we sit in a chair. I care about where that, where your toilet paper roll is, you know, I really, I care very much about that stuff. Joe is, is art. And so the, the natural combination of, you know, having a team of people who have a lot of my skills and a lot of his skills. And it allowed us.
[:[00:36:11] Julie: And I know them very well. And I work with them on their myriad projects as they come along.
[:[00:36:26] Julie: I guess, you know, we were working together on every project. Um, it was really only the first, I think it was the first three years that there were three owners of the company.
[:[00:36:52] Liz: I still try. Yeah. So actually do stuff in Design Manager for a long time until I found
[:[00:36:57] Julie: Oh yeah. No, you gotta do QuickBooks. Yeah. Design Manager has its place, but it is not bookkeeping's, not bookkeeping.
[:[00:37:04] Julie: I've given them that feedback. . Yeah.
[:[00:37:13] Liz: Um, yeah, absolutely.
[:[00:37:15] Liz: Well, before I go into platforms, I want to make sure I want to hear more talking about you guys being disruptors in the industry and your approach. Now, you know, we talk about offering a more dynamic down to earth approach to working with the designer. That sort of dovetails into your different roles and how you were building your business back then.
[:[00:37:36] Julie: that out there? We both came, we both came to the table with this desire to, um, have the clients be more part of the process of the design so that they could see the evolution and, and really the organic process of how these, these projects come together. It was also a time when [00:38:00] the internet was starting to really take off.
[:[00:38:34] Julie: I felt it. You open a House Beautiful magazine and Schumacher was advertising. Gotcha. Um, and it started to be. Our clients would start to ask, well, is this a Kravitz fabric? Um, and so we were like, we don't want to lie, right? We want our clients to know what they're getting. So we decided we are not going to hide anything.
[:[00:39:31] Julie: And. We had proposed it to a client, our cost, plus whatever amount we put on it, I think at the time we probably did net plus 30%. And our client, because we do share specs, our client had Googled and found it for less online. Oh, geez. And we thought, that makes us look yucky. I don't like that. True. [00:40:00] We needed to evolve how we work.
[:[00:40:21] Liz: It's really a sticky wick to navigate.
[:[00:40:34] Julie: Um, don't let anyone see anything. Yeah. Yeah. I, you know, and I think it was, first of all, it's time consuming to work that way.
[:[00:40:54] Liz: the change now?
[:[00:41:08] Julie: That's the thing. And people like it. And so we have, we have chosen, you know, sort of again, organically to make sure that we know what we're selling someone, we know what the materials are, we know where it's coming from, we don't want it to off gas formaldehyde in their homes. You know, so we, so we have, we do a lot of research of where things are coming from, making sure that we're saying to our client, this sofa that looks like, you know, this Wayfair sofa is built by.
[:[00:41:58] Liz: among clients has changed too.
[:[00:42:23] Liz: S., or is it, you know, what am I supporting here in my furniture purpose? And all of that has really changed since the early 2000s for sure. But I want to touch back on the pricing. I, this is such a hot button and people starting their business. That's one of the main questions they ask is how do you price the clients and what's successful?
[:[00:42:58] Liz: And it seems silly to say it is a business. I didn't want to highlight how I made an income, which sounds nuts because you're charging for your time, but also you're earning commission on trade goods. And then people ask about getting your discount. And I then learned to reframe it as a commission. Cause I do believe it's that, that we're the outside sales force for these different vendors that don't have, you know, the furniture makers in North Carolina that I buy sofas from, they don't have a retail outlet, they don't have a store.
[:[00:43:44] Liz: So there's different percentages based on. I actually don't have a flat percentage. I have a different. Depends on my, like I said, relationship with the vendor. Some of them are better than others, but I always tell clients that we don't mark up above retail. We, we only collect the difference [00:44:00] between net and trade.
[:[00:44:14] Julie: he's a famous designer. People always question, but to your point, absolutely.
[:[00:44:43] Julie: It was a number of years ago, but he said to me on a phone call, well, then your own, your motivation is to purchase from these particular vendors where you're going to make a lot of money. I've heard, and I think that's where the word commission makes me nervous. So I say the gap is not paying 60 for that sweater, right?
[:[00:45:18] Liz: so, yeah, working at a furniture store back to vastu days, nobody walked in and said, Hey, boss, you owners, how much are you getting the sofa for?
[:[00:45:47] Liz: But that goes back to, do you trust the person that you hired to do honest business with you to take your money, to buy the furniture, to install it, to bring vendors into your home. There needs to be some trust. A lot of trust.
[:[00:46:09] Julie: Um, but you know, that's exactly the point. You don't walk into Vastu. Um, you know, you don't walk into West Elm and say, Hey, can you sell this to me for the cost that you paid for it? You don't do that. So we also don't have a flat markup. We say we're net plus 40. Unless that pushes it over retail and we cap it at retail.
[:[00:46:58] Julie: And, and, and taking, charging the mark, the markup. Allows us a cushion to be able to correct things. You know, there are we've we've talked about this for years. How do you how do you bill? How do you work? We've changed over the years occasionally, but we still we do our hourly fee because we don't actually have a minimum that you have to spend with us.
[:[00:47:29] Liz: I will say to clients who will say, Hey, you're going to sell me all this expensive furniture or use certain vendors that you have a relationship with. I will say the business structure of charging for your time to do the work, our time to do the work and making a commission.
[:[00:48:05] Liz: I don't want you to pay a retainer and then go, Holy cow. I didn't know it was going to be like you said, 40 grand a room. But then I said, look, I'm not, we're covering our time and I want to furnish your rooms because you want it to be furnished and I want it to be beautiful, but I'm not unfairly motivated to just bill you a ton of time just to cover us or sell you a bunch of stuff you don't need because it's, it's covered.
[:[00:48:30] Julie: doing. Absolutely. That is absolutely true. Yeah, but it's, it's the most uncomfortable part of what we do. I, I
[:[00:48:42] Liz: And I was talking to other designers that in New York, they all went full transparency using client credit cards to make the purchases. So that you're completely out of the purchasing of it all and the pricing, but I don't think that works either,
[:[00:49:00] Julie: Right.
[:[00:49:03] Julie: You're right, but I didn't pay for it. So how can I fix something that I didn't pay for? There are designers in this city that do that, too. I can't figure out how that could work. Um, a goal that I have is to figure out What a fixed procurement fee could be.
[:[00:49:32] Liz: Is it a think of it as a small monthly retainer?
[:[00:49:52] Julie: but if you figure it out, you set it at a place where you're covered, you know, and it's trial and error.
[:[00:50:19] Julie: We have
[:[00:50:41] Liz: Cause it's by room, you're not going to their homes. You're not processing a ton of custom goods. So it's. You know, controlled,
[:[00:50:54] Liz: that on the client to measure. So that is on them. So there is, you know, you have to have sort of a back to your covering
[:[00:51:01] Julie: What's what's the liability?
[:[00:51:23] Julie: how we actually do it.
[:[00:51:24] Liz: You know, one client bought several rooms. So we had an e design special and they had architectural drawings from their renovations. They sent that over, which was great. Not everybody has that, but so we say measurements on you in a nice legal way when you purchase. And then, um, but even the first few will end up spending more time, it's hard not to do everything you do for a full service in person client and you have to be okay with giving them the design and walking away, not knowing if they implemented or if they were totally psyched with it.
[:[00:52:10] Liz: down to the small ones. I have this wallpaper whisperer, you know, grab and go sort of an experiment to see do people like pattern and color for me?
[:[00:52:36] Liz: Small cities, not a whole house. And I don't have the, I need to follow up with feedback. We're still kind of getting our processes down. When I kind of throw things out there and figure it out. Steps, are still under,
[:[00:52:54] Julie: 'cause we do care and we do love it and it, you know, it's not just a moneymaker. Right. It's not just to make, you know, we're fortunate that we get to do something that we love for a living. Yes. So the fact that we, you know, we get sort of buried in the how do we bill and how do we make money doing this thing that we love, the payout is really that, you know, what happens at the end and you hopefully get some beautiful photos or you've got a great relationship with people.
[:[00:53:24] Liz: rewarding. And I mean, that's why you get into it. You said Joe is an artist and you're bringing some more of the back end organization to him, but it ultimately is a business, right? And we have to figure out how to do what we love and also pay our bills.
[:[00:53:56] Julie: business.
[:[00:54:24] Julie: And I think that coming out on the scene and You know, putting the quality of product that, you know, both of our firms put out there received recognition, and that's awesome. And I think that that's really what gave us, first of all, exposure. And second, the confidence to be like, Oh, okay. Yes. You know, like I'm sitting, I'm sitting here and I'm looking, you've got this beautiful library behind you and you know, I think like, oh, right, that's what design is.
[:[00:55:09] Liz: you validated that.
[:[00:55:30] Julie: And when we were young, I mean, Joe and I were what, 25 and 26 when we started this company, we were babies and to walk in and say, you know, we are the owners of this company, you know, even though we look like kids and to be received by people that, you know, some of them had been working in showrooms for decades and some of them were sort of new, but everybody.
[:[00:56:27] Julie: I get that we've got an issue. Here's a backup. We're going to overnight it for you. You make those relationships and we all want to see these projects be successful. And so I think that learning that, coming new on the scene, getting out there, learning that, getting some magazine recognition, and now I suspect it's online.
[:[00:56:53] Liz: but I agree with you. Those early PR moments really validated us. And made me feel like, okay, I can go out there and, and meet clients and someone else's agreed that I know what I'm doing, that I can put a room together because you're so young and you're really figuring it out and learning on the job.
[:[00:57:09] Julie: job. Yeah. Yeah. And I want to, I want to throw us a bone too, because we did something talk about disrupting the industry. We did something that designers in a generation before us didn't do. We were friends with each other. Yes. And we. And we didn't feel like competition. We felt like, Oh my God, you know, you've got your great projects.
[:[00:57:36] Liz: I walked out of one when you guys were rolling in. I kind of remember that, but we're exactly right. We have each other's back. And I always say there's room for everyone and. You know, I interviewed Sally a couple episodes ago and she really helped me and she, you know, reached out and pulled me up and shared resources.
[:[00:58:12] Julie: Yeah. Yeah, we, we thought there's, you know, there's, there's more success and support in numbers. And I think that's something that we have always practiced. And I think that helped us to is knowing, you know, when I was having a really stressful moment and, you know, Joe was stressed about something else, I knew that I could call you guys and be like, Oh gosh.
[:[00:58:58] Liz: It's okay. We're all, you know, here's some
[:[00:59:17] Julie: I don't know how they're doing it, but I still love to celebrate your wins. And likewise, our other friends wins, you know, it's that's, that's fun. That feels good. This has
[:[00:59:37] Liz: And I think there are principles that hold true, whether you're starting now or starting then. I love hearing everyone's coming up stories because it was so long ago. I don't remember all the details and I didn't, you know, know everything that was going on behind the scenes. I think, I hope that the new generation is as collaborative or more collaborative because things are opened up on the internet, [01:00:00] online, on Instagram in a way that didn't happen for us back
[:[01:00:04] Julie: Yeah, absolutely. And like your e design, you know, like that's something that in my, in my office, we've talked about too, like, could we do that? It seems like fun and easy, but then you don't know what happens at the end. And that's sad. Oh, well,
[:[01:00:20] Julie: yeah, let me know.
[:[01:00:38] Liz: The projects are different. The clients are different. The process is, you know, sort of structured at the same every time, but it, it feels fresh because you're working with different people and. And, um, and vendors. I think Sally said she never uses the same wallpaper or pattern twice. Is that true for you guys?
[:[01:00:54] Julie: question. I think that's probably true. I think it's probably true. I mean, unless I think I would say it's true for Joe. Okay. It's probably more true for Joe than it is for me, mostly because my aesthetics is more neutral. And so, you know, if I'm going to be in love with a particular neutral,
[:[01:01:22] Liz: That's a scary
[:[01:01:44] Julie: Be kind to your contractors. We are all human. Stuff comes up in everybody's lives and communicate clearly with your clients. You know, I still feel like don't keep anything behind the curtain, you know, I share, you
[:[01:02:10] Liz: Feel as fair and discuss it up front and let people ask questions in the beginning. It's so much better than midway through the project. When people want to comb your time sheets or don't have a sense of budget or
[:[01:02:33] Julie: And of course it's going to happen, right? You're going to get an email from a client in the middle of the night who's stressed out about something. But being able to talk about stuff and communicate super, super important. Yeah. I don't know. It's a, it's a funny industry, but it's a great industry. Be confident about your product.
[:[01:03:08] Liz: Before I felt very insecure.
[:[01:03:30] Julie: I agree.
[:[01:03:43] Liz: That is something I touched on early too. When I was sitting in that classroom, I looked around, I was like, we're learning the basics. I took a couple of classes, but there were some presentations in there where you could tell, unfortunately, you don't have the eye.
[:[01:03:57] Liz: You get [01:04:00] pigeonholed in your AutoCAD corner, I guess. That's exactly right. Well, Julie, it has been such a pleasure to have you with me. I think you've shared some wonderful insights and in particular what it's like to work in a successful partnership, which as I said, is unique and you both are so super talented and just crushing it.
[:[01:04:21] Julie: Thank you. Thank you. It's been so fun talking with you. I want to say one more thing about about a partnership. Please. Joe and I are very fortunate because we don't both panic at the same time. It's funny. There's something that I'll be so stressed out about and I'll call him and he's like, Oh my God, it's going to be fine.
[:[01:04:38] Liz: of the best advice for hiring people. Someone gave me was, and you're a partnership, so it's different, but look for someone that doesn't have the same skills or the same reactions in your point that you do, you don't need a bunch of use. You need a well rounded.
[:[01:04:56] Julie: the first day. Yeah. Well, we also got really lucky that, you know, we have attracted and kept a team of people who are phenomenal. Um, you know, the people that are with us have been with us 10, 12, you know, four years.
[:[01:05:28] Liz: They will go crazy. We're all human. Right. And it's all about doing the best we can, as you said, telling your clients, we're going to do everything within our power.
[:[01:05:42] Julie: there. Yeah. Yeah. We want to see a successful project. We're not just like pocketing money and sitting on your sofa over
[:[01:05:54] Julie: interview.
[:[01:05:59] Liz: Oh [01:06:00] my goodness. Well, on that note, we'll say Talk to you soon. We could continue on so many topics. I hope we can have
[:[01:06:10] Liz: you. Oh, so fun to see you too.
[:[01:06:24] Julie: Make sure you subscribe to get the latest episodes from your favorite podcast platform and visit our website at lizlevininteriors. com for more information.
