Episode 1
Meet Sally Steponkus Roche! Mentor and Interior Decorator to the stars.
Meet my good friend, decorator, and entrepreneur of 24 years Sally Steponkus Roche as we chat about how she started her business, how she grew her team and the challenges we all face in the design trade.
We dig into sharing our first design assistant, the most rewarding client project ever and how Sally helped me get a foot in the door of the design industry.
- Sally Steponkus :: Interior Design, Washington, DC. - Dive into Sally's gorgeous interiors and meet her team.
- Design Business Accelerator Toolkit- Grab your spot soon! - If you're serious about starting your interior design business, The Design Business Accelerator Toolkit is the done-for-you roadmap you've been looking for. Launching soon- go grab your spot and turn your passion into a profitable profession.
Transcript
[00:00:23] Welcome to Behind the Drapery podcast.
[:[00:00:56] Sally's sharp attention to detail, her love of clean simplicity, [00:01:00] and highly skilled sense of color meld together to complete the desired effect. Her homes exude the characteristics of the client, often practical, always personal, and tailored to be a perfect blend of quotidian functionality and lovely sensibility.
[:[00:01:38] Hello Sally! Hi Liz! Welcome to Behind the Drapery! This is our very first episode where we explore stories of inspiration and success in the world of interior design.
[:[00:01:55] Liz: Hey, I'm thrilled today to have my friend Sally Stepankis Roche [00:02:00] joining us, a seasoned interior decorator who has been an incredible mentor to many, including myself.
[:[00:02:21] And I didn't know anything. And I felt like you were really generous in sharing your, not only your resources, but your experience and your time. We had so many fun lunches. In the beginning.
[:[00:02:33] Liz: Austin Grill at Old Town, which R. I. P. R.
[:[00:02:40] So good. On repeat. Yes, it was my pleasure. An honor to talk to you and. I could talk about this stuff all day. And we
[:[00:02:59] [00:03:00] And you were with me literally at the hospital. getting pooped and prodded before my very fun c section that day.
[:[00:03:20] Liz: Oh my god, I think that was scarier than the actual c section, I have to say, after she stabbed my arm.
[:[00:03:49] And how did you realize this was a career path you wanted to pursue?
[:[00:04:09] And I was like, yeah, sure. I would love it. You know? Cause I had worked at Laura Ashley home in high school, so it really felt like I had some experience. Oh, absolutely. So I had worked at Laura Ashley in high school. My cousin said, do you want to work in the memo room of Robert Allen? I said, okay, sure. So I started working there for a summer and like after.
[:[00:04:38] Liz: You're such a people person. I mean, you could talk to anyone and everyone, right?
[:[00:04:54] For right after I graduated college. So I started there and was their customer service [00:05:00] person. I had to deal with all the problems, but it was great experience. And I met a ton of designers who I'm still friends with now. Um, and a designer I had met hired me. I started working for her. She's the late Ann Plinkle.
[:[00:05:32] I think trusted me and was sort of somebody who had other things on her mind and didn't feel like working all the time or whatever. So I ended up taking on way more than I think an assistant for the, who's working for the first time or designer would. So it was like a trial by fire, but I did love it and I enjoyed it.
[:[00:06:03] Liz: those paper files that the client files and they were like six inches deep.
[:[00:06:24] But it's like, you wear so many hats. And,
[:[00:06:41] And I always say you need to work. On that side of the business first. Yeah. If you get what's going on in like a wallpaper showroom or a carpet showroom or a fabric showroom, you will be way. You know, and then go work for someone else.
[:[00:07:14] And then the office. Oh yeah. You, I had no idea. I mean, how could you, the details and paperwork involved. Mm-Hmm. with the day-to-Day in a design studio. Decorator's office. Yeah,
[:[00:07:32] July 29th. Nice. 2020. That was my last day with her and started my business that day. I was 24 years old and never looked back. Never looked back. My dad said your mother and I will pay your rent for a year while you start your business. Well, that was my timeline. I had a very big first year, actually. And one thing that I have to say is people get, if you need advice, get a good accountant or CPA.
[:[00:08:16] And I was always stressed out about it because we were always charging sales tax and then of course tax and everything else. But I never saw her like really dealing with it. Did her accountant or bookkeeper deal with it? I guess,
[:[00:08:42] It's easier to not have access given to everyone in case, you know, God forbid, something goes awry. It's just you and your accountant could have messed it up or leaked. I don't know. No, that is, I think everyone I know has had some like terrifying tax experience, whether it's income tax, they didn't set aside because when you're working for yourself, you always [00:09:00] start out as a sole proprietor.
[:[00:09:18] Your, I love
[:[00:09:39] And I always say to them, you guys are artistes. I'm a decorator. I'm a business person. Like I'm a sales person. Like I'm a really good salesman. And I have good taste and I'm really organized. So yes, and hard work. Yeah. Exactly. And I think that that's part of it. So, but I would say my style is like an updated, traditional, colorful, happy, [00:10:00] sometimes preppy.
[:[00:10:22] So, if I, if I sold a fabric in 2000 to someone, and it's still current now, I cannot
[:[00:10:35] Sally: could be a different colorway. Okay. It could be a different colorway. The other day I had like a small heart attack because I was like such a journey in my office.
[:[00:10:52] Liz: put that on your website. You know, Uh, No pattern fabric repeated.
[:[00:11:07] Sally: some wallpaper. I know. It's hard. I know. I'll say, I know, I know, but that's, you know, that's not really you.
[:[00:11:31] Liz: I'm sure you'd appreciate that too.
[:[00:11:37] I know you are too, to like get things exactly like really perfect for clients. Like this is, I say to clients, if I'm going to show you these, I show two schemes now, I used to show a lot more. I know. And I say, if you don't love. What I'm showing you, it usually works out that somebody just says, okay, I'll take a or B or a little mix of both, which is fine.
[:[00:12:08] Liz: Oh, I, when you were speaking, it reminded me, I mean, I think back when I first started, I would feel compelled to bring so many choices, like a bag of fabrics and we'd have a, a working meeting.
[:[00:12:36] If it's really singing, it's going to sing for everybody. But it took me a while to sort of land on that. When you first
[:[00:12:50] You know, we wanted to have the other stuff at the ready. But now I'm like, this is what I really think. I always show my favorite first.
[:[00:13:05] And they're like, we love it. Could you also bring four others for my husband to think about? And I was like, Bye. I said, you know, I actually said this to them. I shoot myself in the foot sometimes and I bring my favorite because I said, I spent a lot of time getting to this one. There aren't 25 others that work.
[:[00:13:37] Lifestyle and spent a lot of time thinking about it. And when you were speaking about, um, you know, you were saying you're not an artiste decorator or designer, but I think, you know, there's so many misconceptions. I think there's so many folks out there that are working as decorators and designers that aren't super reliable or don't have the business thing down.
[:[00:14:23] So, no,
[:[00:14:49] And I think that's what I've trained everybody in my office to do. That's important for us, like that customer service, like you get back to people, you respect their money, you time. Yeah. And like we have, like you said, we've [00:15:00] been doing this a while. We have these systems set up, so there's no. Question about anything.
[:[00:15:30] So we just bought this house and I have, you know, 10, 000 to do the whole thing. I mean, that. It's a waste of my time and a waste of their time and I wouldn't want anybody to feel uncomfortable. So we try to separate the men from the boys a little bit
[:[00:15:54] Sally: Yeah, exactly. You're like, yes, I know this dining table will cost what your car costs,
[:[00:16:13] And I think when I was first starting out, I was a little shy about it because I didn't want to scare anybody off or heavily filter too much, you know, filter people out. And then it just ends badly. If people, you're right, if people say I only have 10, 000 for a room and that's not in the realm of what you're able to do with your custom services, it's so
[:[00:16:30] And another thing that we say now, like we always say to clients, please try to give us a budget. It could be per room or for the whole house, because if you don't, no matter what we tell you, it's going to be more than you thought, you know, because if you haven't sort of really narrowed down that number, and I just think it's a fair parameter, like how we You know, if we're not in your bank account, it's none of our business, actually.
[:[00:17:00] Liz: them a range so they can decide to opt in or out. Uh, and I, I was talking to realtor friends. I said, you know, when you're shopping for a house, you have a range, you know, when you're decorating, you should have some sort of range.
[:[00:17:29] Sally: No, we don't do that. Yeah, we don't do that at all. I don't know.
[:[00:17:45] You basically can put a collection together for a client and then they. Take it off your hands and you get your normal kind of designer commission. I like to call it a commission because we are, as you said earlier, we're sales people, we're the outside sales team for all these vendors. And I think [00:18:00] that's, that could be a whole conversation too, about pricing and people feel entitled to your quote unquote designer discount.
[:[00:18:25] I don't know how our industry got stuck in that other pricing and, you know, selling is, I jokingly call myself a sofa saleswoman because I'm out there selling sofas all day.
[:[00:18:41] Liz: You are a salesperson wrapped in a beautifully designed bubble.
[:[00:19:08] Well, I
[:[00:19:28] He said, you need to make a goal of how much you're going to build in hourly time every day. Because I charge by the hour and, you know, start with the retainer and all that. But my dad would be like, you need to say to yourself. This is how much I need to bill and that's when I started out at 75 an hour.
[:[00:20:11] So that was good advice. And then
[:[00:20:20] Sally: Yeah. Yes. And then also when you're trying to get new business before you're really established at all, you have to go out and go to events. Like I would go to so many parties.
[:[00:20:54] So I would say, yeah, it's who you know, a lot of times, Oh, and especially in [00:21:00] DC, I think cause you and I are natives and I think that there's a lot of work here for a lot. There are a lot of decorators and designers in DC, but there's a lot of work. I
[:[00:21:19] And. We'll get together and share war stories and, you know, ask for advice. I love that. I think
[:[00:21:26] Liz: It is like therapy. And, but back then we didn't have, you know, I was thinking
[:[00:21:35] Liz: And Austin Grill, where it all started. Too bad they're not around.
[:[00:21:53] I mean, I still was, you know, the paper files and all of that, but it, yes. There are some, you know, [00:22:00] principles. It is easier now, but I think the principles of how you start and how do you get things going and like we said, like starting in a memo room or an internship or, you know, working for a designer, obviously, if you can and, and having a plan.
[:[00:22:19] Sally: yeah, you have to make something a concrete sort of plan. And, you know, write a business plan, have a board of advisors kind of thing. You know, it can be your parents or your husband or your sister, whatever, whoever is supportive of you that you can talk to about certain things and hopefully find mentors.
[:[00:22:51] Liz: had to, I remember I pitched it to you, remember? That's right.
[:[00:23:00] Fabulous decorator. Oh my gosh. Pennsylvania. Now a mom of two. Awesome. Have to get
[:[00:23:08] Sally: Who came to us with her blue eye shadow. She'd come from the corporate world. Yes, she did. And she just wanted to get into design and so yeah, you said to me, I need a part time assistant.
[:[00:23:21] Liz: I said, I can't afford a whole person, but I might be able to afford a half person. I think I might've, I think I was newly pregnant at the time too. I was like, it's go time. I need help. And so that goes, you know, supporting each other and being collaborative, you know, there's room for everybody.
[:[00:23:54] Sally: years. I feel.
[:[00:24:22] But I now the way that I work is I have these ladies who work for me and do so much of like the background stuff and I can really focus on. The sourcing, the design, you know, client, I go to the client meetings. I, you know, if you hire me, you're not going to get somebody else. You're going to get me, but they do all the backwards proposals.
[:[00:24:43] Liz: people appreciate that too. I I'm sure you did too. The first meeting said, I'm your main point of contact. We're going to be in a relationship. And then here are the folks supporting the project right away. And they say, you know, people say, stay in your genius and stay in what you're good at. And I agree with you like in the beginning, you've got to do it all.
[:[00:24:59] Sally: I'm [00:25:00] terrible at, like, the money
[:[00:25:03] Sally: relate. Sorry. No, I haven't written a proposal in 17, 17 years or something like that. I don't know. But anyway, Heather came along. Oh, yes. And was wonderful for both of us. And so happy that she's an incredible, talented, established designer herself now.
[:[00:25:40] It's, it's very scary, but I think those leaps are a leap of faith. You say, I know that I have this work I need to do this. And I always feel like the people who've come to work for me, it is also my responsibility to educate them because I've never had anybody come with experience, except for. [00:26:00] Maybe one or two people.
[:[00:26:28] This is why we're going to do things and ask questions and, You know, a lot of like furniture styles are in French or I have a classical background and so a lot of architectural things that I reference may not be what everybody else knows. So yeah, so I like, I think that's a huge, that's a, that's my responsibility as well.
[:[00:27:08] Putting out fires. Absolutely. I stay close to all, you know, or in contact with people that have been with me for years too. It's, it's a small business, you know, it's not like a
[:[00:27:27] One in Weevil and Elizabeth is in Florida. So amazing luck here and it works out well and you know they're actually coming up for our holiday party for the second year in a row and come and stay we all and then we go around to all of our projects that they've been working on like see everything and we have a big fancy purple dinner I love that
[:[00:27:50] Sally: in our clients meeting them you know some of these clients have never met Kimmy in Louisville who's been with me now, I think a year.
[:[00:28:13] Liz: I mean, it's so fun. I actually have, my people are remote now too, which I think is more accepted now post pandemic. I used to feel like I'd have all my people in person and sort of legitimize the office, I've made it kind of thing. I prefer working remotely because I talk so much and when people are around me, I chat, you can only imagine, right?
[:[00:28:51] And it's, it makes you feel really proud that they were very successful. Yeah.
[:[00:29:14] I mean, before that, like I said, everything was like documents with my old boss. And that was, that made me very uncomfortable because you never really knew how much money there was, you know? And so this just keeps such good track of so many things. So I don't know if everybody who's worked for me is using the same platform, but so not to say they have to do everything I've done, but like just to learn a system.
[:[00:29:39] Liz: I think that's really important to organizing yourself because of the, like you said, the sales tax sneak up on you having, I use design manager too. Now we're on house pro a lot of people like my Doma or studio. I haven't, um, looked at those, but I would be lost without it, especially as you build a larger client.
[:[00:30:13] I'm like, you should have seen my legal pads back in the day, you know?
[:[00:30:32] Yeah. Thank goodness. Cause it does save so much time. It does. And clients can pay. I mean, this sounds crass to say, but clients can pay so much faster now because yeah, you get a proposal in email. You can click and say, I want to pay with a credit card or a draft, a CH bank draft or whatever. You can just do that.
[:[00:31:12] We
[:[00:31:34] Although, that process took forever, now the actual furniture making post pandemic takes longer than the, I mean, we used to get furniture and stuff in four to six weeks, and now it's four to eight months. I mean, I don't know if that'll work to the good old
[:[00:32:11] All that Benjamin stuff like they're aging out, they're retiring and I think finding new younger people to apprentice. A lot of this generation doesn't want to work with their hands. They don't want to do that kind of work. It's a problem.
[:[00:32:28] She's trying to build sort of an apprenticeship program to, for that reason, exactly. Nobody is, you know, seamstresses are. Not as commonplace as they used to be. You really need to train people to do it. I think, especially with those furniture makers, I remember talking to one vendor mid pandemic and was like, please, can you just crank out this sofa?
[:[00:33:07] And then when I sort of thought about it from their perspective and not just in the heat of pleasing my client, I was like, Oh yeah. And it is a larger issue. People would rather, I was at my dry cleaner last week and she said she can't find anyone to work at their locations because people would rather drive around and deliver packages or drive an Uber or an Uber because they can make their own schedule and, you know, not stand in a hot sweaty dry cleaners.
[:[00:33:39] Sally: But yes, yes, yes. But it is a problem. Our business, you know, our industry. Because things are
[:[00:33:54] Sally: Well, it's interesting when Mitchell Gold shuttered so suddenly, all those people were out [00:34:00] of a job real fast, had no idea.
[:[00:34:25] Yeah. I'm surprised
[:[00:34:41] Sally: to them. And I said to somebody yesterday, she had inherited a bunch of furniture.
[:[00:35:11] I think if it's good quality stuff, you can recover it.
[:[00:35:25] Sally: waste. Yeah. Just chucking it or whatever.
[:[00:35:30] Liz: samples and all of that, you know, trying to reduce some of the waste in our industry, which there's a lot, I hate to admit.
[:[00:35:46] I know. I was like, what is this? They're so beautiful.
[:[00:35:50] Sally: I feel like you're spending so much money on your packaging, like, oh my god. The tissue
[:[00:35:59] Yeah, [00:36:00]
[:[00:36:05] Liz: know, it does feel like an art, piece of art. Yeah,
[:[00:36:11] Liz: talk for three hours, though. Yeah. Yeah, I haven't thought a ton about sustainability or eco friendly stuff. I know that green design is a hot topic, but I'll admit we haven't been asked to do much of that.
[:[00:36:40] Sally: so many, so many, that's great. I mean, I have to say so much of our business is repeat.
[:[00:37:07] Oh my gosh, it was really funny Not showing the same samples to the same people or anything like that. But um, wonderful family. Anyway, this girl is Right this young lady. I she's wonderful. I love working with her and her husband the doll and they have two boys Anyway, they just hired me, you know this past year to start on a big renovation actually of her Family house that she grew up in her parents house that i've done big renovation Anyway, we knew we were going to do that together But during the pandemic she wrote me and said I just want you to know how much we love our home I know you did it, you know at that time she was like it was seven eight years ago.
[:[00:38:07] I mean, that's really exciting. It's an honor.
[:[00:38:25] And it's so rewarding. Right. And you feel like, yes, I'm doing what I do.
[:[00:38:48] And so there are a lot of mistakes in the business overall in the industry and it can be really tricky and upsetting and ups and downs. So this makes every little small sad or [00:39:00] bummer so worth it. I mean, that's just about the nicest compliment I could ever get.
[:[00:39:16] Right. Mind myself, okay, it's, I will take care of them and it will make their lives happier and better. Yes. Living in a space like this that they feel proud of and you know,
[:[00:39:36] Yeah, it's interesting. But yeah, repeat business is incredible and a very, very big part of my life. Very big.
[:[00:39:51] Yes. Traction going. It's the dream scenario when you have like your, uh, love connection clients and can filter down to just those, I call it cherry [00:40:00] picking, you know, just to repeat clients that they know the process, they know you, they trust you, they're happy, they know what things cost. You're not having to reeducate them at every turn.
[:[00:40:10] Sally: you know them, you know what they love, you know how they want it to be. You know how they like communicating, you know, um, stuff like that. No, it's incredible. It really is. And like you say about cherry picking, I mean, that As you said, too, to your point, when we first started, we had to take every job and now I do not take every job, you know, I take only certain size job and I only, this is my parameter, I, if I talk to people on the phone and I feel like I want to have a glass of wine with them, I will go meet them.
[:[00:40:58] Liz: I used to think I had to try to land [00:41:00] everyone like I needed, you know, to, I'm a people pleaser. Make everybody like you. Yeah, make everyone like me and I'm gonna, oh, do whatever and break my back, bend, you know, twist myself in a pretzel to get it the way they want it. And I, you know, as you've mentioned earlier, like developing the confidence around your abilities and the confidence to say, okay.
[:[00:41:33] I tell clients now, I think the beginning, I was afraid to say. There might be a problem, you know, because I wanted everything to be perfect and not have a hiccup, but we can't control every aspect of, of the supply chain or the project or the installation and I just say, look at the things, just know that I've got your back and you're not out on your own if, you know, something comes in wrong or, um, and just address it up front.
[:[00:41:59] Sally: no, for [00:42:00] sure. And still, I, once in a while, I think my, Okay. I mean, I think I go with my gut and most of the time I'm good. Once in a while I get bamboozled and, you know, because somebody will refer someone and I love that someone who did the referring, but then in the end, the client was probably not my exact cup of tea, but still did my best and, you know, work my hardest.
[:[00:42:41] Oh,
[:[00:42:44] Sally: did, yes. I was like, so excited to work on this project. Not just because it's my friend and I love her and I love her taste, I love her house. Yeah. Oh my gosh, but I, I just
[:[00:42:54] Sally: amazing. Thank you. Very exciting. Colorful.
[:[00:43:07] I can do primary colors in very traditional shapes. And then right.
[:[00:43:14] Liz: this. I'm not feeling like I know what I'm doing here. Yeah. And I think, I think it takes a lot of sort of figure out your niche and your aesthetic. And I remember I lost a job one time because someone said, Oh, well, this is all about pattern and color.
[:[00:43:40] Sally: Yeah, well, that's to your point before you were like, you know, there's plenty of work for all of us.
[:[00:43:52] Liz: different. You have to relax in that and come from a place of abundance instead of scarcity. You know, like, it's a big city, it's a big world, it's, there's [00:44:00] room for everybody.
[:[00:44:12] Sally: um, well, that's the thing is that like sometimes clients come in, like I've had team members. You know, start a project with somebody and then they'll move on to do something else and I'll end up taking out a project that I'm like, I wouldn't have taken this project, you know, now I'm stuck doing this project and it's not a good fit and stuff like that.
[:[00:44:33] Liz: to get out of those projects or do you sort of see them through?
[:[00:44:53] Liz: How do you, how do you handle those kinds of challenges or, or like disagreements with clients? Um, do you, do you try to find a [00:45:00] middle ground or is there like a deal breaker for you? Like if they cross a certain line, you know, you've tried and tried. I mean, yeah, I mean,
[:[00:45:13] I don't think we should be working together anymore. I appreciate your business, but I respect you and your money and I don't think this is as successful as we wanted it to be.
[:[00:45:38] Or do we not wanna work together anymore? If that's the case.
[:[00:45:44] Liz: Opposed to being open-ended and hourly, forever. I actually will only do hourly at the very end, and I still, it still gets dicey sometimes, and I feel like that opens up, oh, let me, you know, scour your timesheets, not that they're incorrect or need to, you know, can't be defended, it's just, [00:46:00] I don't know, I don't love that part.
[:[00:46:04] Sally: to go out strong. Yeah. You want to go out
[:[00:46:11] Sally: Absolutely. That's a big, and I, I think you should do a panel of people about that because apparently New York, everybody is flat fee and I wouldn't do a flat fee if you paid me a flat fee.
[:[00:46:22] Liz: I don't know how you do it. I, you know, actually at High Point last year, they did a, someone who wrote a book on and researched all these designers and decorators across the country and polled everyone in terms of how much they made and build. And they said, if you do the flat fee, this particular research showed that you're leaving 50 percent of income on the table or something like that.
[:[00:47:09] Do what I took me six hours and an hour now. So I still just billing. I mean, I'm not
[:[00:47:22] Liz: And more of it. I think that's why you need both. I mean, I look at my numbers and it's, you know, some years it's 50, 50, or sometimes it's furniture sales are 75 and the time is, you know.
[:[00:47:37] Sally: No, I'm kidding. I can tell.
[:[00:47:51] Sally: thing. It happens. It happens.
[:[00:48:10] Liz: So definitely, no, I haven't had to fire anyone. I, people usually move on, you know, because our young juniors are typically in their twenties and their next stage of lives often bring them marriage and. Yeah. Yeah.
[:[00:48:37] I
[:[00:48:41] Sally: It's crazy. I know. It's crazy. I mean, that's right. Like Laura started out as a part time assistant and now she's a senior designer, brings in her own project. Amazing. As her own assist. I like one of my remote people is pretty much, I mean. Primarily dedicated to her, but obviously does like that too.
[:[00:48:56] Liz: another way to go to, I mean, I have the project manager, junior [00:49:00] designers working for me. She says, I, I tried to go out on my own for a minute. I really prefer working with you under your umbrella as a team. You know, it's not for everyone. Cause like we're saying it's, it's a lot of stress owning the business and providing for your team and making sure you take on enough clients.
[:[00:49:32] Sally: I felt the same way when I had too many people, and now I think, um, we're at just the right, just the right number of people. I mean, we could use, I mean, here and there we get really busy, I mean, I think everybody in our industry is pretty busy these days, but, um, once in a while I'm like, oh my gosh, because I'm, I'm trying to be like, I'm not the one who's going to drop off the lamp.
[:[00:49:55] Liz: roll around with the lamps and like remember you had the 24 pack of waters in your [00:50:00] trunk and you were on the road getting salmon. You were very hands on, not that you're not now, but I mean literally with the lamps and the shades and the samples. I remember those days.
[:[00:50:21] Liz: segue too into how to maintain a healthy work life balance in an industry that can be so demanding.
[:[00:50:47] Sally: how's it been?
[:[00:51:15] I work out twice a week during those times, you know, I don't see clients on the weekend unless they've got a huge check that they don't want to put in the mail or want to feed me wine. And it's the only time they can meet, you know, once in a while, I don't work in the evening. I, but again, I've set these boundaries.
[:[00:51:56] Your thoughts on a text, you can send them in an email. I [00:52:00] guarantee I'll get them just as fast, but then I, but I feel like if it's an email, I sort of. Can choose or not choose to look at an email or not Absolutely, I feel like is an attack sometimes like I feel very put upon
[:[00:52:18] Nobody was texting You know, it makes sense. People, clients are at home. They're like, Oh, now I have time to think about my house and I'm looking at it. I'm going to tell Liz right now what I'm thinking. You can tell a lot about the clients that feel that they need to tell you it's Sunday at 10 a. m. You know, I'm not thinking about it then, but please, you know, we now actually, and I don't, it's hard.
[:[00:52:54] Sally: well, you can't that's the thing.
[:[00:53:19] Liz: Immediate, like I need an immediate answer here because it's happening in the moment. The texts feel urgent to me too. When you say it feels like an attack, especially during, I don't know, I feel like it really peaked in those pandemic times. I guess as we were all at home and freaking out anyway, and I was getting so many texts and I was like, I just never, they were projects.
[:[00:53:41] Sally: I feel like you can never relax if you're always sort of like on call, it's sort of interesting, but, so I feel like I balance stuff pretty well, I mean, uh You know, when I first started, yes, I would work on the, in the evenings, or I would go see clients on the weekend or whatever.
[:[00:54:05] Liz: You're like the wallpaper installer coming
[:[00:54:16] Liz: hour, they can go home for me.
[:[00:54:37] Um, you know, especially weekends and evenings. It's just, um, as I joke with my drapery workroom partner, it's not open heart surgery. It's not a life or death situation. It's important and it's money invested, but it's not, you don't have to pull me out of dinner on Saturday night to be like, you know, that wallpaper we talked about, right, right.
[:[00:54:59] Sally: [00:55:00] Yeah, no, no, no, they just, and I think it's just people's default now, like you're saying, and they just do that. And yeah, so you don't want to say like, but like also, cause I also, the way I file emails and information from clients is very specific and I just.
[:[00:55:31] And I think I'm, when I'm home, I am like 75 percent there because I always. 'cause I love what I do, honestly. Yes. So I do think about it a lot. Yes, I do try to turn off my phone or, and I don't go on my laptop, like I don't work in the evenings and stuff like that anymore. So I try to be more present in that way.
[:[00:55:54] Liz: need to, yeah. Even when you love what you do a break, you need to Yeah. Shut it off. Need a break. Yeah. Yeah. Although I, I [00:56:00] think when I'm driving in the shower sometimes I'm like, oh, and I'm like in the, in the room and I'm moving stuff around in my brain.
[:[00:56:24] Can you discuss the importance of this continual learning and professional development in your field? Are there any like continuing ed areas that you focus on? Yeah. Absolutely.
[:[00:56:47] And I think a lot of it is just to be re inspired, to be honest. I think it's helpful to see what other people are doing and how people are excited about their work and that just sort of gets me thinking about things [00:57:00] sometimes in a different way. I did not go to design school like yourself. I've taken some classes but you know and I don't do CAD and someone Jenny in my office is great at it and she does it so and I have taken a
[:[00:57:11] We're like
[:[00:57:16] Liz: have our strengths Sally, we just have to stay in our area of strength.
[:[00:57:25] Liz: but I think it's key to like, you know, delegate those things.
[:[00:57:34] Sally: No. And I'm not good at that stuff too. So I just do a sketch and say, this is what I want you to draw. Do it. I'm trying to think if I've done any like other continuing education stuff. I feel like the designs that are used to have more offerings like that when you would go and hear people talk or whatever.
[:[00:58:13] Oh, that's cute. I like to go and see that stuff for the first time
[:[00:58:21] Sally: They're very generous. Very generous. I love them. Let me know if I don't have anything else I'm doing right now. I mean, I try to stay on top of the magazines and things like that and listen to podcasts. Honestly, like I listen to business at home.
[:[00:58:36] Liz: have a lot of topics, really helpful. And the magazine, I feel the publication itself is fabulous. I get a lot of good insight there.
[:[00:58:48] Liz: like now, like we used to be in such a vacuum.
[:[00:59:03] And now the content is just at us on Instagram and everywhere and constant, and you're seeing everybody's work all the time. It is definitely more inspiring to see more. You know, fresh content of other people's work. But I also feel
[:[00:59:28] But I, so when I'm on there, I'm like, Oh my God, I have got to do this more. I've got to do this more, but I don't want it to be like inauthentic and like over post and stuff like that. So I just try to do it when I'm actually inspired to
[:[00:59:49] You're very good. Oh, thanks. I just been playing around with it and I enjoy it. I like to do it first thing in the morning when I've had my coffee and I'm kind of, I don't know, I guess I'm a frustrated little [01:00:00] real maker, movie maker.
[:[01:00:07] Liz: those things.
[:[01:00:14] Sally: Right. And I think that's important because I don't want, I don't, I want people to get the authentic feeling of me. Well,
[:[01:00:37] The clients that come from that have already sort of self selected that they like my personality and my style things. I mean, you know, I'm not for everybody, obviously. I feel like those matches are, are better than just the cold calls from a website because they've gotten to know my personality better.
[:[01:00:54] Sally: Yeah, yeah, yeah,
[:[01:01:09] Sally: and what you're showing?
[:[01:01:24] Liz: as if I know.
[:[01:01:31] Sally: Oh yeah. Could never, could never, could never. But people do that and like, you know, like you were saying, a lot of people expect your designer to be like flaky and not show up and do that.
[:[01:01:47] Liz: And a collaboration and excellent service truly go a long way in this business. Mm-Hmm. . I guess my last question for you would be what really drives and motivates you to continue thriving in this [01:02:00] industry?
[:[01:02:05] Sally: I really just get so much joy out of helping people. I love meeting clients, seeing how they live new, new ones. I mean, old clients, I know how they live, but seeing how people live, asking them things that they've never thought about so that I can hone in and get just the right stuff for them.
[:[01:02:40] Liz: And seeing them be happy with your work is like the ultimate, right? Reward. Absolutely. Like that note we received from the family, right? The mother, daughter,
[:[01:03:03] They're actually antique. But, um, that I got on Cherish, which is also wonderful for sustainability. I love to sell stuff on Cherish. I buy a ton on there. And I sent her an email and I was like, actually, long story short, other clients. Want dining chairs that look just like hers. Cause they saw her dining room on my website.
[:[01:03:22] Liz: repeat. I thought you can't
[:[01:03:39] My client would like them. So she's like, this is the best Christmas present I've ever gotten. That you are buying these chairs from me, selling them to your client. And then I get to get new chairs. Amazing. She's so excited. And then Laura actually found host and hostess chairs on the floor at Krab. Like insane, deep discounts.
[:[01:04:11] Liz: That never happens. That's amazing.
[:[01:04:15] Okay. You're just making
[:[01:04:22] Sally: So that was really exciting. She was, and she was just so jazzed about the fabrics that we pulled and it's all good. I love that. When
[:[01:04:35] Like, can I get it? Can I fast, you know, track North Carolina? Yeah. The thrill of like meeting those deadlines. Um, it's such a reward. Yeah. So you must be a people pleaser to truly succeed. I mean, clearly we thrive on the energy. I'm like, Do you love
[:[01:04:55] Liz: know, love me so
[:[01:05:01] You're funny.
[:[01:05:20] Sally: Well, thank you, Liz. You're so nice to think of me.
[:[01:05:38] I
[:[01:05:42] Sally: soon. Yes. Yes. Our design therapy group needs to get back together for sure.
[:[01:05:57] I mean, you didn't have to, we were, you know, friends of [01:06:00] friends, you know, friends of a friend. That's how we met. And then we took off.
[:[01:06:11] Liz: Yes. Oh, we got to mention when we were superstars on the, uh, member, uh, we got to get Andrew on here sometime.
[:[01:06:20] Sally: The face of the future? I don't have it. I don't have it. Yeah, it was like four faces of the future or something like that on the Washington Post film section cover. Yeah. Oh my
[:[01:06:33] I thought I'd made it. I had my throw pillow, all of the studio getting our picture taken. I was like, holy
[:[01:06:47] Liz: Oh my gosh. So we could talk forever. I'll have to have you come back on all the different topics we dig into, like pricing and PR and all the things because you're a dream guest.
[:[01:07:00] Liz: this pleasure is all mine. And to our listeners, thank you for tuning into Behind the Drapery. Stay inspired, stay creative, and keep designing those beautiful spaces. Until next time,
[:[01:07:25] Make sure you subscribe to get the latest episodes from your favorite podcast platform, and visit our website at lizlevininteriors. com for more information.
